I thought David Gibbs made some excellent points in his 'Unity in the gathering or 'adult only' church?' where he made the case for keeping children in church meetings instead of sending them out for children's Sunday school. Good on The Briefing for publishing it (Jan - Feb 2010, Issue 376/7, pp30-32).
You'd have to have guts to abolish the Sunday school and it'd be hard to keep your own kids in if everyone elses' were going out, but I think his biblical and theological arguments are persuasive.
In his church, only under 3s can go out for the sermon.
It's interesting to note that Sunday school during the morning service only goes back to the 50s and 60s.
Thursday, January 21, 2010
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Voddie Baucham's Family Driven Faith argues for the same conclusion.
The church I'm at have groups for 0-10s 36 weeks of the year. So for almost a third of the Sundays the children participate with adults in corporate worship for the entire service. That seems to work on balance. Although there are some who keep their children in always.
Thanks, Dan.
At my church in the US, Sunday School happened an hour before the main service and there were both adult and children's classes. During the service there was a creche for under-threes, though a lot of parents chose to keep even the very young children in church for at least part of the time. I was seriously impressed by how well it worked and how soon the children learned to sit quietly during the sermon (no children's talk), sometimes with books or drawing pencils to occupy them. And then, of course, they're all there and ready for the Supper with everyone else (though sadly, we didn't do paedocommunion).
Which was all to say, the transition period may be hard, but once you've established it as the norm, it should be fine.
Thanks, Ros.
Did you have weekly communion?
I think you need people on board with it. If some kids are going out, little Johnny will tend to want to go and play in the hall!
The International Presbyterian Church, Ealing, seem to have Sunday school for the kids half an hour before the service, where I think the preacher gives a bit of an introduction to the sermon etc.
No, we didn't have weekly communion. And, yes, obviously you need parents to be on board. Though, if there are no supervised activities for children, and you make it clear that children can't be left unsupervised, parents don't have too much choice, do they?
One thing we did which I loved was that people were invited to go up for communion not as individuals but in family groups. And families or couples were encouraged to invite single people in the congregation to join with them, so that there was a real sense of community and fellowship in the meal.
Interesting!
The Ros method of pastoral care and leadership: like it or lump it? Might get rid of a few people! They have the choice of going to another church.
Nice idea. I'm surprised upity single people didn't think it awkward or patronizing etc.
Yes. There may be a reason why I'm not in pastoral ministry. But I don't think that leading a church is about crowd-pleasing. It's okay if half your congregation leave, so long as the ones that stay are the ones hungry for the ministry of word and sacrament, isn't it?
Well, yes, it would be best if everyone stayed and was hungry, of course.
I guess some hungry Christians may not agree with the no Sunday school policy.
Even then, though, I guess its fine if people leave amicably and the church survives and they go somewhere good. I guess every church needn't be the same etc.
Nevertheless, as I said, it's brave elders who abolish the Sunday school for kids during the service. I would say most people expect and want it.
Well, you should probably do some education of the congregation about church and keeping the kids in before you suddenly abolish Sunday School. If you think it's a good thing, then there's no reason why most of the hungry Christians can't be persuaded of that. I think Ian Fry's church went through the process recently and did it in stages over several years.
V interesting. His former church, presumably, or the new one he is Pastor of?
Yes, former church in Chessington, I think. Dunno about his new church.
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